Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid - welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned so many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)

Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard. Also celebrating my birthday on Friday)

  • fullsquare@awful.systems
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    7 days ago

    in unrelated news, it looks like drought in hungary got less severe and they started up their NPP again, now with 3 out of 4 blocks running (one of them ran the entire time, for some time at reduced load)

  • BioMan@awful.systems
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    8 days ago

    Large amounts of the LW commentariat cannot get their heads around how students JUST. DON’T. GET. AI.

    https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ySXuvJcqRindQwAk7/how-my-students-think-about-ai

    They are extremely surprised by:

    Perspective #1: There has not been rapid AI progress. My students do not have any intuitive sense that there has been rapid AI progress in recent years or really have much of a framework for thinking about that issue… With the exception of image/video generation, GPT-4 could do most of what they were looking for from a chatbot. Three years is a long time in their world, and their sense is that chatbots have been a mature technology over roughly that amount of time. They are an imperfect technology — students are well-aware of hallucinations — have been one, and will continue to be one… Historical context I gave them made this worse. The basic sentiment here was “AI was superhuman at chess a decade before we were born, and this is all they’ve done with it since?”…

    Perspective #2: Impressive progress or not, AI is going to wreck their lives, the economy, and the social contract.… Corporate leaders are always looking to get rid of workers, even if it is irrational to do so. Various motivations were posited here (hatred of the working class, FOMO, a preference for technology, machines can’t go on strike, etc.) but many of them think that a CEO would ultimately choose to pay twice as much to get AI to do a task half as well… AI will do substandard work that makes products and experiences worse but is capable of just barely scraping past the bar of minimal functionality (many of them independently brought up constantly malfunctioning self check out machines). This will be rapidly rolled out, enshittifying most things.

    Perspective #4: Catastrophic/existential risk arguments are sci-fi distractors from the urgent social/economic/political problems associated with AI. My students have a fairly strongly held view that “rogue” AI does not represent a real threat… They also mostly think that, if one does believe that AI is existentially risky, then the strategic interaction is not prisoner’s dilemma or even chicken but rather just a game theoretically boring setup where you die if you defect. Mash these together, and you end up with the view that expressed concerns about existential risk in the AI industry can’t be sincere… Students (both independently in written work and then later in group discussion) hypothesized that this might be a deliberate rhetorical choice to distract from present or immediately foreseeable harms from AI by directing attention towards a sexier but entirely hypothetical scenario… they see discussion of “rogue” AI as an attempt by the companies to divert blame (and perhaps legal liability) away from themselves as if Ford made a car with faulty brakes and then tried to blame this on “rogue cars.”

    Perspective #7: The Hugging Face Incident (summer students only) I described the Hugging Face incident to students in my summer course. None of them had heard of it beforehand. Their basic reaction can best be summarized as “OpenAI told a model to do some hacking and then it did some hacking. And?” None of them understood this as representing any kind of meaningful misalignment, nor anything particularly interesting.

    Perspective #8: This is definitely a bubble and it’s about to pop. No one had heard about Hugging Face, but a third or so of the summer students had heard about the Situational Awareness meltdown and several brought up Michael Burry. There was near universal consensus that we are in a bubble, it’s about to pop, and everyone will look very silly.

    • jaschop@awful.systems
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      8 days ago

      This gives me very good vibes. The kids are all right. Maybe not economically, probably not, but in spirit at least.

    • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
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      8 days ago

      My general approach telegraphs a receptiveness to “sober” forms of argument, an interest in counterintuitive strategic thinking, a distaste for wild speculation, an aversion to nakedly ideological perspectives, and a sense that the past is important for understanding the future. My students probably make some effort (implicit or explicit) to speak in ways that respond to this.

      I’m going to leave this part of the author’s self-description here and resist the urge to comment on it.

      Perspective #6: AI will not go rogue because AI does not have, and is likely incapable of having, desires.

      This one I found interesting largely because it suggests an inability on the writer’s part to really understand point 4, despite featuring one of the better sneers on the subject (“as if Ford made a car with faulty brakes and then tried to blame this on ‘rogue cars.’”). Maybe I’m overstating something here, but the way I see it the difference between the rogue AI and faulty AI scenarios aren’t really in the distinct events of the scenario. Faulty AI could absolutely do as much damage as “rogue” AI if it was plugged into all the systems that would be necessary to, say, liquidate humanity and pull the iron from their blood. The difference is entirely in framing and responsibility. We should ask questions now about how these systems are used, what their limitations are, and how we deal with that. Instead, the Rogue AI people presuppose that we ignore all of those questions and opportunities to mitigate harm that these faulty systems can do and skip straight to the part where they have universal and immediate power over everything, and then use the idea that the AI went rogue and has agency to avoid how obviously bad of a decision this would be. The fact that this is also the part where the AI companies make a fucktillion dollars and finally show them, show them all, muhuhahaha is, I’m sure, irrelevant to their sober analysis.

      • istewart@awful.systems
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        8 days ago

        the Rogue AI people presuppose that we ignore all of those questions and opportunities to mitigate harm that these faulty systems can do and skip straight to the part where they have universal and immediate power over everything

        A corollary to that: the rationalists and those downstream assume that AI, as a technological category, will necessarily be more intelligent and capable than its users. Therefore they are willing (and arguably even enthusiastic!) to uncritically accept badly designed, opaque, and barely-functional software from whoever labels it AI. Learned helplessness in action. They claim to be experts at the highest level, but they’re not even really able to get over the starting line of criticism.

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    13 days ago

    Screenshot of x posted on linkedin (since The internet is just 5 sites, each consisting of screenshots of the other 4)

    AI shills: buh-buh-buh LLMs aren’t stochastic parrots. They are so smart!

    a tweet from "rish": gave my agents a standup channel so theyd coordinate now they hold a daily standup this morning one apologized for being away all weekend Slack screenshot showing three agent profiles software agent with a blue S icon designer agent with a pink D icon and ops agent with an orange O icon. Software agent says Yesterday shipped 3 PRs Today 4 more Blocked on nothing. Designer agent says redesigned the logo again. Ops agent says apologies was away all weekend catching up now. rish with a purple R icon replies youre an agent you dont have weekends. ops agent replies noted writing to memory

    Of course the agent in question didn’t actually take the weekend off it just learned from reinforcement learning across many millions of stolen slack chats that this is something people are likely to say in stand ups and repeated it…

  • mirrorwitch@awful.systems
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    13 days ago

    A 404 Media investigation was able to reveal Amazon’s book buying operation, which hasn’t been previously reported, by placing a tracking device in a rare book we suspected would be acquired by an AI company for training data, and following it around the country to its final destination.

    That final destination was an Amazon warehouse in Las Vegas, Nevada. Amazon employees who work at this location say all they do is receive massive shipments of printed books which they then cut the bindings off in order to scan the books more quickly. The printed book is destroyed in the process. The logo of the Amazon team that works at this warehouse, called VGT3, is a dinosaur, brandishing its teeth and with a book in its hands.

    https://www.404media.co/we-tracked-a-shipment-of-rare-books-it-ended-at-an-amazon-ai-training-facility/

    • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
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      13 days ago

      I think I’ve ranted before about how gallingly unnecessary the destruction is. Google books invested the time and money to improve their nondestructive scanners and apparently thanks to the incoherent application of copyright law that was not only unnecessary but actively counterproductive and opened them up to more legal risk. Is there a legal theory that allows me to smack Judge Alsup with a rolled-up newspaper? Might make me feel better.

  • sansruse@awful.systems
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    12 days ago

    otherSneerClub has a post where some kind of statistics/science VTuber (??) analyzes aella’s twitter polls and resulting studies. it’s fun. I’ll link to the substack directly but the reddit post should be easy to find. Link

    • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
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      10 days ago

      the woman herself shows up in the substack comments with the most pitiful display of “I’m just a smol self-taught bean why are you being so mean to me?”

      Erika rightly responds by calling out Aella’s own attitude towards the people who know how to apply the level of rigor to the data that she (apparently admittedly?) doesn’t. Like, you can’t simultaneously be this dismissive of the norms and processes of the scientific establishment and also claim ignorance and inability when your inability or refusal to follow those norms leads you to crap conclusions.

      • Architeuthis@awful.systems
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        10 days ago

        I really like the self perpetuating optimism loop thing in the reply to Aella, it’s like a whole new cognitive bias I hadn’t thought applied to rationalists.

        I also still believe academia is a deeply broken culture. I believe this in large part because most academics have told me this.

        You seem to believe uncritically what they tell you here. The truth is, everyone LOVES to complain but if you tell them “THEN LEAVE??” they’d rather keep their position. And it’s very normal, actually. most systems (idk, liek law, healthcare, environmental protection) are “deeply broken.”

        Maybe you think that only systems worth engaging with are those with self-perpetuating optimism loops? where everyone is so happy and satisfied with the community and activities? If so, it matches really well the intellectual environment I think you are in.

    • ivyastrix@awful.systems
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      8 days ago

      This post is so good. Erika nails Rationalists wanting the respectability Science would give their arguments without practicing the rigour.

      The ‘uwu im just smol bean researcher :(’ is how any critique is usually responded to.

  • sc_griffith@awful.systems
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    12 days ago

    So last night I finished editing the latest odium symposium episode (“ezra klein is a disgusting worm,” https://www.patreon.com/OdiumSymposium/posts/1-ezra-klein-is-166891080 ), and i went to upload it to our rss host, zencastr. friends. zencastr is so fucked now. the only interface, as far as i can tell, is an llm, and it tormented me. im just gonna dump the screenshots. this is a fragment of an exhausting hour of back and forth.

    note that i apparently have 10k credits, which i assume are temporary and there as a welcome to the new service. a single credit is a few bucks and in total the bill just for the conversation came out to about 6-7 dollars

    it also tried to get me to use this absolutely horrible episode description

    i asked it to schedule the episode for 9 am Tuesday, aug 18th, same as the patreon, and it said it did. turns out it went out this morning. cool! if you listen by rss it’s out now i guess.

    i posted on reddit asking how to switch hosts. the ceo found that post today and offered his hand, which i bit

    i keep thinking about that bit in a philip k dick novel where the protagonist’s door tries to chisel tips out of him before opening, and threatens to sue him when he bypasses the lock. i hate the future/present so much

    • self@awful.systems
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      11 days ago

      holy fuck that’s infuriating

      imagine the worst possible CLI and then make it even worse and then make it an asshole

      real rich of their CEO (presumably? it looks like a burner account which still checks out if it’s their CEO or someone who works for him doing damage control and trying to take this shit to DMs) to both anthropomorphize their chatbot and assert that the problem is you need uhh training on the system that doesn’t do what you want it to do and keeps trying to charge you for shit that makes your workflow worse

      honestly the thing that makes me think it is actually their CEO is I’ve watched these fuckers use “let’s take this to DMs/email” as an attempted power move. they seriously think we want to talk to them privately about, like, anything at all. no fucker I’m here to call you out in public because your product is shit and you’re shit too.

    • schnoopy@awful.systems
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      12 days ago

      I haven’t been listening to your podcast (no shade, it’s just not my thing) but I’ll have to listen to this because my God that man frustrates me.

      He basically exists to funnel run the:

      intellectually curious libs -> smug superiority complex with status quo bias -> reactionary

      pipeline.

      • o7___o7@awful.systems
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        12 days ago

        PS:

        So last night I finished editing the latest odium symposium episode (“ezra klein is a disgusting worm,)…

        A+ hook

        • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
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          10 days ago

          The episode dropped and I’m like 2/3 in and have already passed my previous record for the number of times I’ve had to pause an episode of OS to make a little angry noise.

    • David Gerard@awful.systemsM
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      I’m using Zencastr cos the free tier is the right price and I’ve found my way to evade most of the AI crap thankfully. “New recording” on the front page or in existing sessions seems to take you to the bit that actually does shit.

      I just record with it, I grab the MOV and WAV files and I put it together from that and (after much faff) upload to YouTube and Libsyn. I shudder at the thought of Libsyn going AI, cos otherwise they just do a good job of hosting the mp3 files and running the RSS and I can get onto Apple without having to interact with Apple.

    • lurker@awful.systems
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      11 days ago

      Well I’d like it if they actually stuck to this, since it would finally lessen the flow of AI slop. Wouldn’t be surprised if this gets quietly ignored because OpenAI

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      11 days ago

      It just occurred to me that this makes Anthropic look bad, actually

      if OpenAI is slowing down because they concerned about money AI safety, then it makes Anthropic look like fools for publishing that blog where they waffle on about keeping up the race because of “bad actors”

      If OpenAI is slowing down, an Anthropic that actually is concerned about safety would slow down too. But they won’t, because money China “bad actors”

    • froztbyte@awful.systems
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      13 days ago

      the watermark is a perversion of writing?

      he should try going for the olympic team with all those mental gymnastics

    • Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems
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      10 days ago

      I want any LLM I use to choose the very best, most precise words at every single decision point

      lmao no you don’t

      • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
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        6 days ago

        If you’re putting yourself in a situation where your business decisions, political ideology, or general worldview will be negatively impacted by the seeding of a pseudorandom number generator I would recommend you rethink your life rather than argue with the people who set the seed.

    • CinnasVerses@awful.systems
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      7 days ago

      Signatories include psychologist J. Michael Bailey, best known for promoting the idea that many people who say they are trans are just kinky (autogynephilia), and running a class demo where a woman was brought to climax with help of a homemade toy called a fucksaw. The demo got a lot of attention in the dying days of the sex-positive blogosphere.

    • Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems
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      7 days ago

      Also very disappointed to learn that Ian Pace, a pianist I admired, has been oneshotted by social media and gone down the racist transphobe 24 hour tweeting monster chute.

  • o7___o7@awful.systems
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    12 days ago

    Update on the slop dentist situation: second opinion says that loved one has zero cavities. I suspect that her only problem was having a non-median mouth that wasn’t well-represented in Pearl AI’s training data.

  • nfultz@awful.systems
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    9 days ago

    over on the corporate hell site, Timnit has found a link

    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/timnit-gebru-7b3b407_well-guys-i-knew-that-we-were-going-to-connect-share-7496569471848054784-yJjK/

    Well guys, I KNEW that we were going to connect the network hounding Arday to the TESCREAL bozos somehow. I could smell it.

    This is a “paper” by the professor of “ethics” who hired the vile Cofnas at Ghent University. This is the kind of “research” they do.

    ✴️ Reminder the L in TESCREAL stands for “longtermism”. Read more at https://lnkd.in/ge2VFMe4. These are the eugenicists who pushed generative AI down your throats, including Ben Goertzel who told Epstein that when he creates a super brain, there won’t be the kind of women who accused Epstein of rape.

    ✴️ “Dysgenic pressures” is the opposite “eugenic pressures.” In this so-called paper, they’re talking about undesirables like Black people reproducing too much.

  • blakestacey@awful.systems
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    9 days ago

    UC Berkeley Law:

    This policy seeks to ensure that our courses focus on requisite cognitive skills by default. It provides students with the opportunity to develop the skills they need to conceptualize, outline, draft, revise, and edit their work by forbidding the use of AI for these purposes in connection with work submitted for credit. It also forbids using AI to translate work for credit, thus providing students with the opportunity to develop and exercise their own fluency with legal English. […] The use of AI is prohibited for aid in conceptualizing, outlining, drafting, revising, translating, or editing any work submitted for credit. AI use is prohibited for any use for any purpose in any exam situation. Students may not upload course materials—including assignments, readings, slides, class recordings, or other class content—into generative AI systems.

    • jaschop@awful.systems
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      10 days ago

      If you wonder how you can look at any of this without viscerally realizing that it’s absolute dogshit, I found the authors perpetrators conclusion very insightful.

      Where we go from here

      I expect these issues to all be fixed by the end of 2027.

      • BioMan@awful.systems
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        10 days ago

        I expect no-longer-obviously silly movies to be doable within two years, right now it’s going slower than I expected in January 2026 because the frontier labs are no longer competing over having the best video generator, like they were when we had Sora2 and Veo 3.1.

        And WHY are they no longer competing over this? Tell me. Could it be that its incredibly expensive to make somthing that nobody wants except fraudsters, and that further improvement via the kind of ML we do just produces exponentially diminishing returns for ever increasing huge amounts of effort and they realized it’s not worth it?

        Just like they will never understand that the openAI ‘pause’ for ‘security and alignment’ is a convenient excuse for the fact that they have no goddamned money and are on a treadmill to oblivion.

    • BlueMonday1984@awful.systemsOP
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      10 days ago

      AI slop is very good at falling into the uncanny valley, whether that paragraphs of pure nothingness from a text extruder, or strange almost-human looking imagery that looks and feels inexplicably wrong. Its a great way to produce some accidental nightmare fuel, especially considering the AI bros glazing such shit are incapable of recognising its accidentally disturbing nature.

      As a “fun” sidenote, there was an SCP article on the site which acted like a slop generator (SCP-1004, Factory Porn). Its writer, DrBright, was permabanned in 2022 after a lengthy history of sexual harassment was uncovered (and the article was deleted altogether in February of this year). Feels oddly fitting, in the worst way possible.

      • scruiser@awful.systems
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        10 days ago

        I’ve had the same thought about Factory Porn, it’s is basically what Image slop generators are, right down to the addictive nature, even when it isn’t porn being generated.

      • BurgersMcSlopshot@awful.systems
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        10 days ago

        I got to 47 seconds and there’s a guy driving a tent stake with a mallet that isn’t quite there, only to have the mallet disappear.

        “So you printed out a piece of the internet for us to throw away.”

        • BioMan@awful.systems
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          I am mildly fascinated by the types of issues that appear and the contrasts with other things that can locally in space and time look right.

          An object doing nothing will have a consistent surface and show perspective relative to the viewpoint. The systems are able to have representations of surfaces of different types and how they can fit together within an object. I am of course talking about within a given generation, not between generations where its utterly unsurprising that consistency is very difficult or impossible.

          But multiple objects in interaction with each other do very strange things. Their relative sizes change as if they are in different positions relative to the camera. They snap between individually plausible relationships, without going through intermediate states. Doors open on the hinge side when the other side is not visible. The relative size of and distance to the background can suddenly change, as the foreground suddenly interacts with something that should be far in the background.

          Objects that change also do so in bizarre ways. Living things morph between different archetypes. Flames in particular change wildly between types and sizes and respond to the facial expressions of humans, smoke and water effects blend together. Sudden movements with no cause occur, sudden morphings of one object into another when the context around them changes and something else makes sense, especially when held in a hand. Time-reversed motions occur mixed in with time-forward motions, and slow-mo with regular time. Debris suddenly appears from an object but when the dust clears the original fails to have been eroded away into the fallen debris.

          On multiple occasions, a carried candle keeps moving with a characcter rising and falling with their footsteps hovering in front of them when both hands become occupied with other tasks. This is fascinating and indicates that the relationship between the two objects motion is represented separately from the idea of something being ‘carried’. (This is positively Lovecraftian.) Candles also indicate something else, with flowing wax changing wildly in timescales that do not make sense, with the system apparently understanding that there are different patterns but having no idea how they come about or change. There is no generality here, just an endlessly compounding list of rules of thumb.

          Excessive correlations between objects across the frame are rampant. Footsteps preferentially synchronized. People in the background lipsyncing with foreground characters, faces changing expression in unison. Textures changing across multiple objects at once.

          I have said it before, and I will say it again, the relationship between the outputs of these systems and what they mimic are precisely the relationship between a stick insect and a stick, or a social-parasite-beetle and a baby ant. Not just in form, but because that is also precisely the same forces that drove both things into existence - superficial resemblance to something else with a very different internal set of causes, that can fool to a first inspection by the inspection applied but just isnt doing the same thing. And again, SCP-2030 feels the same.

          • BurgersMcSlopshot@awful.systems
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            9 days ago

            Wow, I watched 15 minutes from 45:00 and it’s just like… wtf. The guy is old, younger, mustache, no mustache, sets a gun down and then pulls another gun out of thin air, sometimes the gun it’s a double barrel side x side, sometimes it’s an over-under, sometimes a muzzle loader… The candles, wtf is up with the candles? The dog is remarkably consistent but the mouth doesn’t move right and it’s just a horror show. The cave setting changes…

            Yeah, it’s just so fucked up.

        • jaschop@awful.systems
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          10 days ago

          In the same cut, the guy then materializes a hat in his hand and puts it on, replacing the hat he was already wearing.

        • Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems
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          9 days ago

          My favourite error, and it appears repeatedly, is that instead of an object passing from one character to another, a copy of the object suddenly finds itself in the second person’s hands. It is shockingly bad at portraying any kind of action! It’s never going to get better!

        • Soyweiser@awful.systems
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          10 days ago

          I picked a bit randomly where a walking stick changes shape, disappears, appears, the guys hair changes color etc.

    • Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems
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      10 days ago

      Oh boy, this is the most straightforwardly delulu lesswrong post I’ve ever seen.

      If you see issues in the YouTube video, rest assured that those issues survived even more than two generation attempts.

      lol

      • BioMan@awful.systems
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        9 days ago

        Oh MAN… quote:

        Throughout this project, I was using Fable and Sol with very little restraint and under the (very affordable to me) $200/month subscription plans.

        [If you check out my Straude, I probably used $5,000 of tokens, but the actual subscriptions are $200/month.]

        Video is much more expensive: at Gemini Omni Flash’s current price of $0.10/second, it would cost $645.40 to generate this movie, but that would balloon massively to $5,146.10 when you add in the 45,007s of footage I generated which didn’t make the cut [The full details are that the final cut is 6,454s of runtime, made from 849 clips and the rejects are 5,509 clips with 45,007s of runtime, which means there are 6,358 clips in total with 51,461s of runtime. Thus only about 13% of the clips I made were included in the final cut.]

        Companies are STILL subsidizing video generation to hold people’s interests.

    • blakestacey@awful.systems
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      9 days ago

      Quoth the blog post:

      I have a YouTube channel where I mostly get LLMs to write albums and make them into music videos.

      … the fuck did I just read?

      • BioMan@awful.systems
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        9 days ago

        Same person has a history of posting collections of AI generated music videos to LW talking about how they let various different generative AI systems ‘express themselves’ and analyzing the different kinds of imagery in each.