We know that in the far future of Discovery, Vulcan has been renamed Ni’Var and both Vulcans and Romulans live there. We know that this was the end-result of Spock’s efforts in Unification I and II, that they left the Federation, and that there is considerable political strife between the Vulcans and Romulans.

But we don’t have many more details than that.

Obviously, at some point after Romulans were refugees across the galaxy, Vulcans invited them all back to their home world. But why did they do that? It couldn’t be out of pure altruism, because we know that’s not really how Vulcans work.

It would also be very risky for Vulcan society to suddenly invite millions of very emotional people onto their planet. It would make it a lot harder to maintain the emotional control that they work so hard to maintain. Meanwhile, the notoriously secretive Romulans, who apparently do not have Vulcan telepathic powers, would be opening themselves up to massive invasions of privacy. Did the Qowat Milat and their teachings help in that regard?

So let’s talk about Ni’Var. How did Vulcans and Romulans re-unify on Vulcan without a total societal destabilization?

Please, however you personally feel, let’s accept for the sake of this discussion that Ni’Var is the canonical future of Vulcan for Star Trek shows going forward.

  • paddirn@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    I haven’t watched any of Star Trek Discovery, so I’m walking in blind and maybe this was already covered or contradicted by that show or others. I’m just commenting based on the post.

    If one of the founding member races of the Federation could just leave, it had to have been over some sort of major disagreement. Perhaps something about the nature of the Federation had shifted to such a major degree that Vulcans no longer felt comfortable participating, maybe a turn towards militarism? Or maybe they saw constant disorder within the Federation and thought that their resources were being wasted helping emotional younger races that would never learn.

    Maybe there was some sort of “Vulcan First” movement that emphasized the superiority of Vulcans over all others, even Romulans by extension were deemed better allies than the Federation. Or maybe the break from the Federation was orchestrated as part of a covert Romulan psychological warfare operation to try to subvert Vulcan society, a sort of parallel to our modern day Brexit drama and them leaving the EU. Maybe the two efforts (Leaving Federation and accepting Romulan refugees) went hand-in-hand and the break from the Federation occurred at relatively the same time as accepting Romulans back on Vulcan.

    I think the Romulans would have less to lose over an invasion of their privacy, rather they’d see themselves as infiltrating Vulcan society as part of a grander goal of eventually assuming power over Ni’Var and subjugating the Vulcans.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOPM
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      4 months ago

      You haven’t watched Discovery, so I don’t want to spoil it for you (I don’t really consider this topic much of a spoiler because it wasn’t exactly integral to the story arc), so do not read on if you don’t want it to, but they most likely left the Federation after dilithium supplies ran out and the Federation fractured before Discovery arrived in the future. We don’t know that for certain though- at least I don’t think we do.

      But that is really the most minor part of the discussion point, which is more about the practicalities of Vulcans and Romulans sharing a planet.

      • Stamets@lemmy.worldM
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        4 months ago

        It is outright stated why they left the Federation in Season 3 and it actually was integral to the story arc, also touches heavily on the posts question.

        After the dilithium supplies started to dwindle, the Federation stated pushing for alternative fuel sources or methods of faster than light travel. Ni’vars proposal for this (as it already had been unified) was a project called SB19 but they were unsure about it. They asked for permission to not go ahead with it because it was dangerous but the project was the most promising project of the day so the Federation pressed Ni’var to go ahead anyway. Then the Burn happened. Ni’Var felt that the Federation had forced them to cause the Burn so they denied the Federation any further access to SB19 data or tech and left the Federation.

        This came to a head in Season 3 when Burnham was looking into the Burn and found a time discrepancy between the explosions of different ships. They had a lot of the required data to pinpoint a central point where the Burn originated from but needed SB19 to finish the puzzle. She asked Vance who then elaborated on the above. Burnham gets sent to Ni’Var where she has to argue to get the information in front of Romulans and Vulcans. President T’Rina says that SB-19 is of ‘great cultural and political sensitivity’ here. T’Rina also talks about the Qowat Milat, the Romulan sect focused on ‘absolute candor’ and says that they were vital in unifying the planet and helping both species trust one another. Also says they’re still used to help both species basically talk to one another.

        Later, both of the species talk about how they agreed that SB19 was dangerous as hell and nearly destroyed the fragile peace that they had on their planet. Peer N’Raj, speaking on behalf of the Romulans, talks about how a great deal of suffering was happening on the planet due to the accepting blame for the Burn. Peer V’Kir then talks about insurgency in the Romulo-Vulcan regions of the planet so there’s a ton of strife involved there. Clearly they’re getting along but barely. N’Raj keeps repeatedly talking about the emotional cost and considering he speaks on behalf of the Romulans it goes to show that they are not happy about this situation. Sort of despondent about it. Their lifespans are also relatively long so this SB19 stuff is within living memory for them and not very far flung. It’s still a sore and open wound. The Romulans even threaten to go behind the back of the Vulcans and give data to the Federation. Burnham then defuses the situation by bringing up Spocks attempt at reunification and not wanting to see it destroyed over this request so she withdraws it.

        I don’t know how they re-unified but honestly? I don’t think they really did. I think that it’s a process and a step and that the episode Unification III in Season 3 of Discovery was named that to demonstrate it. Ni’var is just another step in that reunification but it isn’t reunification in and of itself. It’s a long road they’re going to be traveling for a very long time.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOPM
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          4 months ago

          Fair enough, I don’t remember all of those details, but there are still points to be discussed, such as how the practicality of how Vulcan was even able to handle such a large influx of refugees, large enough to be a major political force on the planet. So how many Romulans returned and when? When a Romulan like Laris could be so clearly at home on Earth, would other Romulans on other planets feel the same way? Would they want to go to Vulcan/Ni’Var after that?

          Sure, some of them were living in shitty places, as shown in Picard, but we don’t know how many and we don’t know where all the refugees went and how it was all distributed.

          And then there are all the Romulan worlds in their empire that presumably were not all destroyed. The empire wasn’t just the Romulus system after all. There wouldn’t be a huge Neutral Zone if it was just one planet. So did those worlds eventually become part of some sort of Vulcan/Romulan federation? If so, how did that work after The Burn and after re-unification on Vulcan? Did they declare themselves the new Romulan empire after Romulus was destroyed? Were they abandoned at some point between the destruction of Romulus and The Burn?

          Just some fun questions to discuss on this topic.

          I’m sure I can think up more.

          • Stamets@lemmy.worldM
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            4 months ago

            Oh 100%. My comment isn’t meant to be like “Ha! I have the answer to your question!” Just some information from the episode to help fill things in and help figure out the gaps. That episode is one of my favorites of Season 3 because the idea of Romulans and Vulcans getting along is so insane to me but seeing them still at each others throats almost a thousand years later just still adds up. Clearly steps being made mind you.