All this new excitement with Lemmy and federation has got me thinking that maybe I should learn to run my own instance. What always comes up though is how email is the orginal federated technology.

I am looking at proxmox and see that is has a built in email server, so now I am wondering if it is time to role my own.

I stopped using gmail a long time ago, and right now I use ProtonMail, but I am super frustrated with the dumb limitation of only having a single account for the app. I get why they do it, and I am willing to pay, but it is pricey and I don’t know if that is my best option. I guess it is worth it since ProtonVPN is included. It looks like they are expanding their suite.

Is it worth it? Can I make it secure? Is it stupid to run it off a local computer on my home network?

  • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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    1 year ago

    Yes, I still run my own email server. It is not for the faint of heart, but once it’s configured and your IP reputation is clean, it’s mostly smooth sailing. I have not had any deliverability problems to date, initial setup/learning period notwithstanding.

    If you’re not scared away yet, here are some specific challenges you’ll face:

    • SMTP ports are typically blocked by many providers as a spam prevention measure. Hosting on a residential connection is often a complete non-starter and is becoming more difficult on business class connections as well (at least in the US, anyway).
    • If you plan to host in a VPS, good luck getting a clean IPv4 address. Most are on one or more public blacklists and likely several company-specific ones (cough Microsoft cough). I spent about 2 weeks getting my new VPS’s IP reputation cleaned up before I migrated from the old VPS.
    • Uptime: You need to have a reliable hosting solution with minimal power/server/network downtime.
    • Learning Curve: Email is not just one technology; it’s several that work together. So in a very basic email server, you will have Postfix as your MTA, Dovecot as your MDA, some kind of spam detection and filtering (e.g. SpamAssassin), some kind of antivirus to scan messages/attachments (e.g. Clamd), message signing (DKIM), user administration/management, webmail, etc. You’ll need to get all of these configured and operating in harmony.
    • Spam prevention standards: You’ll need to know how to work with DNS and create/manage all of the appropriate records on your domain (MX, SPF, DMARC, DKIM records, etc). All of these are pretty much required in 2023 in order for messages from your server to reach your recipient.
    • Keeping your IP reputation clean: This is an ongoing challenge if you host for a lot of people. It can only take one or two compromised accounts to send a LOT of spam and land your IP/IP block on a blacklist.
    • Keeping up with new standards: When I set my mail server up, DMARC and DKIM weren’t required by most recipient servers. Around 2016, I had to bolt on OpenDKIM to my email stack otherwise my messages ended up in the recipient’s spam folder. -Contingency Plan: One day you may just wake up and decide it’s too much to keep managing your own email server. I’m not there yet, but I’ve already got a plan in place to let a bigger player take over when the time comes.
    • phase_change@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Yep. I’ve hosted my own mail server since the early oughts. One additional hurdle I’d add to you list is rDNS. If you can’t get that set up, you’ll have a hard time reaching many mail servers. Besides port blocking, that’s one of the many reason it’s a non-starter on consumer ISP.

      I actually started on a static ISDN line when rDNS wasn’t an issue for running a mail server. Moved to business class dsl, and Ameritech actually delegated rDNS to me for my /29. When I moved to Comcast business, they wouldn’t delegate the rDNS for the IPv4. They did create rDNS entries for me, and they did delegate the rDNS for the IPv6 block. Though the way they deal with the /56 IPv6 block means only the first /64 is useable for rDNS.

      But, everything you list has been things I’ve needed to deal with over the years.

      • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, I totally forgot about reverse DNS. Good catch. I probably left out a few other things what with the repressed trauma of it all. lol.

        I had to deal with Suddenlink business, and they were (somehow) surprisingly worse than what you described for Comcast (I didn’t know that was possible, TBH). Suddenlink wouldn’t even unblock the SMTP ports at all let alone delegate rDNS to our static.

    • DidacticDumbass@lemmy.oneOP
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      1 year ago

      That was a sobering read. We all feel victorious when we see big tech fail after they wronged their users, but fundamental technologies that actually run the world have already been lost, and may never be recoverable for egalitarian use.

  • eursec@lemmy.anymore.nl
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    1 year ago

    I host my own mailserver, and to be honest it’s pretty painless. Usually I just let it run without giving it any thought. It’s on rare occasions that I need to put a bit of work into improving the inbound spam scanning.

    Selfhosting does need quite some knowledge of the software stack and several additional protocols to set them up correctly to get your outgoing email delivered. Also, like already mentioned in another comment, you absolutely need an IP address from a non-blacklisted subnet (I think most VPS providers will be okay, residential definitely not).

    My software stack: Arch Linux (soon NixOS), Postfix, Dovecot, rspamd, opendkim, opendmarc.

    Additional techniques configured: SPF, DKIM, DMARC, DNSSEC.

    As you can see it’s quite a lot, and I’ve been doing for more than 20 years now, so my opinion can be a bit skewed. I’d say go for it if selfhosting is a hobby.

    • DidacticDumbass@lemmy.oneOP
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      1 year ago

      I have been learning about it, and what really has motivated was seeing my current provider ProtonMail have an anniversary sale, and just having the least affordable pricing just to get a couple features I need. I have never been a fan of cloud storage, I have never needed an online service to handle my calendars or whatever else.

      I need to do do this out of principle.

      You are right, that is a lot of software in use. However, I have been given a lot of recommendations. I got my own domain name. I am almost ready. I just need to setup a few more things. I am taking a long time to do this, I got distracted with other self-hosted applications, but I do want to try running a mailserver.

  • Thoms@red.cyberhase.de
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    1 year ago

    Just take a look at https://docs.mailcow.email/

    This runs from a small box with everything included. It gives you all the tools and config needed for running a secure and feature rich email service. Webmail, some sort of exchange emulation, webcalender on top of a solid postfix/dovecot install with rspamd as spam filter. Everything is configurable via a nice web UI.

    After 15y running my own mail service and editing a lot of config files, I use this piece of free and open software and find it very good. All you need is a box somewhere in the internet. Running from a homelab will instantly fail, expect you have a static ip.

    • DidacticDumbass@lemmy.oneOP
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      1 year ago

      Neato! There seems to be a lot of solutions for running a mail server.

      Yeah, I think it is time, I need to get familiar with Docker.

      Yeah, I was clueless thinking I could run it from my home. Hah. I just wanted to avoid paying for a VPS. Which is silly because I buy too much crap all the the time and have multiple subscriptions.

      This is actually valauable.

      • Thoms@red.cyberhase.de
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        1 year ago

        mailcow lists a small german vps hoster with a fair price and the right sizing. It’s not a big hoster, gmail and microsoft are not blocking the ip-range and the ASN is not listed on any blacklist.

        The support is quick and helpful, rDNS was a matter of minutes to set up. You don’t need any deeper knowlegde of docker, since it is a one-time job to set the things up und get the stack running. The documentation of mailcow is very good.

        You can run it from home, but you will need a forward host like sendgrid and maybe a backup mx. You can set a primary ip and a backup ip wich will get all the mails when the primary host is down. I guess, there a comercial or free backup-mx services out there. No problem. If you have a static ip for your homelab or at least a dynamic dns-name, it will work. Recieving is easy. But you will need a good forward-service for sending.

  • thekernel@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Not worth the hassle - best compromise is to get your own domain but use a provider like fastmail to host it.

    If they turn sour you can move your domain to another mail host.

    • DidacticDumbass@lemmy.oneOP
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      1 year ago

      I think this is the solution I was thinking about in the first place. I was just musing about it being part of a home lab. I have to consider whether this solution is is better than just paying for secure email.

      • thekernel@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        There are advantages to having your own domain - you can use something like vendor8832@yourdomain.com so each site you sign up to gets their own unique “to” address, that way you can easily send their mail to trash when you dont’ need to deal with them anymore, and will also let you know what company had a data breach if that unique email address starts to get spam.

        • DidacticDumbass@lemmy.oneOP
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          1 year ago

          This is what I want! I want that granular control of having an email address compartmentalized for specific kinds of communication. I mean, I know it is something provided by basically all email providers, but I don’t know, for sure there are limitations. A unique address for each website seems like such a smart thing to do, on top of being stingy with giving out my email address.

          • timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            Protonmail at certain levels gives you simple login with unlimited aliases. Something to look into. I love it and have been with them for years.

  • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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    1 year ago

    Despite my willingness to self-host almost everything, e-mail remains the last frontier for me. Keeping abreast of standards, keeping up today, avoiding implications in abuse and many, many smaller issues abound … and that’s despite my fixed IP and ISP willing to set up a reverse-DNS for me.

    Instead I’ve gone with a paid email provider that I’m REALLY happy with.

  • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    I used to run my own mail server about 2 years ago but unfortunately the spam got so bad I didn’t have the time to manage all the filters. I moved over to ProtonMail since I can still use my own domain there. So I guess I would say it’s not really worth it also it really sucks if your power is out and not having access to sent your power company a strongly worded email.

  • Moonrise2473@feddit.it
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    1 year ago

    I want to do a setup where i use mailcow at home for receiving emails but Amazon ses SMTP for sending, it’s possible? Looks like it is, but i didn’t investigate it

  • Trondk@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Jep. running a linux mailserver for now 20+ years

    its now running postfix :-), in a vm on proxmox…

    • styraco@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Aren’t you afraid about some important email getting discarded without you knowing about it? Or about unnoticed downtime which results in missed mails?

  • Sascamooch@lemmy.sascamooch.com
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    1 year ago

    As much as I enjoy self hosting my own services, email just seems like more trouble than it’s worth. I let Protonmail take care of that for me.

    • DidacticDumbass@lemmy.oneOP
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      1 year ago

      Yeah. I am getting great suggestions, but also a lot of hard truths. I think a basic paid email is probably less than I would ever pay to get the setup right.

  • Thewanderer@lemmy.one
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    1 year ago

    I’m using openbsd with dovcot, opensmtpd on a pi. I used mailhardener to get it scoring well. I’ve had no issues with it getting flagged.

    • linearchaos@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Tbh, that document reads like a discovery channel 2am aliens documentary, but it’s not completely without merit.

      There are a couple line items about software services they’re using that are shitty that sound pretty legit. The fact that they’re operating in locations where they might have to hand over data sounds pretty legit. Their warrant compliance and logging/handing over a person’s IP address is legit.

      The CIA honeypot stuff is all really circumstantial. If the CIA was in as deep as is claimed, a lot of the real evidence people are turning up that they’re not a secure as they could be would be unnecessary.

      My best guess is they decided to make an email company based in Switzerland with the schtick that they’re secure (banks amirite?) They’re doing what they can to appear secure without spending too much money. They’re not going to have legal battles to keep your data private, and they are going to comply with agencies request for data. Even if they support end-to-end encryption if they are required by an agency to turn that encryption off for you, they’re going to do it.

      They’re probably less likely than Google or Microsoft to sell all of your data to the highest bidder, but realistically there’s no such thing as secure email.

  • njaard@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Yes, and I love it.

    I use mailjet as a proxy on outgoing emails so that I get fewer of my sent messages rejected, which works.

    It was a pain to setup but it’s treating me very well.

    • DidacticDumbass@lemmy.oneOP
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      1 year ago

      Neato! I was so concerned about the logistics of sending and receiving emails, it never occurred to me that I could get fancy and make nice looking emails. All I use is text, yet I can do so much better.

      • njaard@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        No, I only write plain text emails, mailjet only has ip addresses that are generally not blocked by the big providers and they do all the DCIM stuff.

        • DidacticDumbass@lemmy.oneOP
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          1 year ago

          I get that, I will definitely need to choose a service that helps to not get sending blocked. Still, I was amused that templates were such a big selling point.

  • Tempiz@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    Nope. It can’t really be self hosted anymore, as having a residential IP is a straight track to the spam folder. It can be done if you also pay for a mail relay service, but then what’s the point of self hosting when you need to rely on a cloud service anyways.