“It’s become really convenient to pick on [Marvel films],” Sebastian Stan said. “And that’s fine. Everyone’s got an opinion. But they’re a big part of what contributes to this business and allows us to have smaller movies as well. This is an artery traveling through the system of this entire machinery that’s Hollywood. It feeds in so many more ways than people acknowledge.”
“Sometimes I get protective of it because the intention is really fucking good,” Stan added at the time. “It’s just fucking hard to make a good movie over and over again.”
Stan’s Bucky/Winter Soldier will be front and center in next year’s Marvel tentpole “Thunderbolts,” and he hopes the character stays around long enough to meet Robert Downey Jr.’s Doctor Doom on the big screen.
“I hope I’m in a scene with him,” Stan says. “Is there any other guy that could pull that off? I don’t know, probably not. After ‘Tropic Thunder,’ is there anything that guy can’t do?”
I don’t think he’s talking about people who want better quality Marvel movies; I think he’s talking about people who think Marvel movies can’t be good by definition, by virtue of what they are. It’s totally fine to not like them, if that’s not your thing, but some people are just snobs who want to sneer at what they see as beneath them.
Yep, speifically the comments about how they are an economic engine for the film industry. I think some people have conflated audiences’ changing attitudes about what truly needs a visit to the local TEMPLE OF CINEMA, with the popcorn-factory that can most regularly still pack them in.
I am just as interested in seeing Adam Driver and Scarlett Johansson convey the powerful emotions of a disintegrating marriage as I ever was (which is to say, I’m gonna get to it! Eventually. It sounds really moving. I think my kid wants to watch Gravity Falls, though), but I will be just as content watching it in my living room, and I have no intention of waiting for someone else’s start time or not being able to pause, or dealing with strangers just so I can see the actors’ nose-hairs.
Now, Adam Driver stabbing people with a crackling laser sword, or Scarlett Johansson blowing up angry robots to save the world? However good it is (or isn’t), it’ll be noticeably better on a ginormous screen with equally ginormous speakers blasting me into a suspension of disbelief, and I’m willing to put up with a certain amount to get that experience. Shit, if it’s actually done well, then having other people there with you is almost like being at a sporting event, and they may even add to the experience (maybe; let’s not get carried away).
Spectacle is not a dirty word, and though I admit I have no patience for things that offer nothing else, I don’t need the rest to be truly groundbreaking if it is fun and made with some sense of care and craft.
I haven’t watched any MCU movies in a long time. My problem isn’t that there’s spectacle, it’s that it’s basically the same spectacle as the other movies, and the plots don’t add much either. The characters may change, but the plot is mostly identical. Some are more funny than others, and some have better written characters than others, but I can get better of both of those with other movies that may actually have something new to offer. My issue is most people watch these because it’s what gets the marketing budget. If they gave that budget to something new that wanted to be creative, I think that’d be more valuable. It’s not going to happen until the MCU burns though.
Effectively you’re voting with your wallet, and that’s fine. I’m not spending zero on Marvel stuff myself, but I am definitely spending noticeably less, because even if I’m not completely tuned out of their house style, any sense of urgency is long gone. That’s what will cause it to burn through, though, people not paying. Marvel needs to rethink their formula, and the other studios need to appeal to audiences with ideas better than “Marvel but not as fun.” Maybe that is what Stan is getting at when he asks the industry to offer something “better.”
I do still think there’s a naivete among certain cinephiles in and out of the industry that Marvel can be blamed for things, when they’re really doing little more than throwing money and talent at Saturday serials from 90 years ago. I just don’t think the trends that are sending The Irishman to Netflix or forcing Megalopolis to be self-funded are Marvel’s fault, or if they are it’s in a very fungible way, and superhero fatigue will result in a different variety of mass spectacle, which will be lauded for whatever minor innovation it brings before growing stale and being derided by the people who still won’t be finding an audience to hit “legacy” box office metrics.
Now, one thing I have kinda started to believe is that there was a certain value in the fuzziness of not being able to predict what would work, which I guess is a way of agreeing with you to a certain extent. The studios have never done anything without an eye towards profit, and maybe the fact that the Marvel formula worked so well made it easier to keep going to the well (or trying to dig their own well), with less money being thrown around trying to guess what would fit the moment and blow up. We’ve certainly lost some stuff that would have been creative successes, but a lot of that talent has migrated to streaming in various ways, and most of we truly missed out on would have been just as cookie cutter as Marvel. The cinemas in the 90s and earlier were frequently just chock full of absolute garbage, and sometimes you’d watch the garbage just because the theater was a third-place and your only TV was a 19" glass box with two shitty speakers.
I don’t get how that’s our problem, these people were never his customer base for Marvel films, they wouldn’t see them even if they were the second coming of Citizen Kane. They don’t have magical powers that prevents the majority of his actual customer base from going. He and the rest of the production team have that power, and if they continue to fail to understand why the likes of Thor: Ragnarok is a great film and Thor: Love and Thunder really isn’t, then there is no nope for them.
Its very clearly about money, its the lead quote from him from the OP, and that shows utter contempt from him of his audience.