skippable intro/pre-amble:
Not trying to be overly negative, but I honestly wasn’t happy with the overall direction of the MCU since Endgame. At least not until 2025/6.
Discussing this with other fans, I stated that the vast majority of Marvel shows since Endgame were superfluous to the overarching narrative, and someone said “you can’t say that about Loki”
Well, fair. But I still have hang-ups even there, because:
- Making all major plotlines into movies and only making seasons out of side plots worked really well for the MCU prior to Endgame.
- The feeling of “we have unlimited film at hand” or “people will watch whatever we put out,” seems to have lead to very basic stories in the movies
- Disney+ series all follow the same formula. All of them. Maybe Born Again breaks this formula a little, and it’ll be because it underwent major reshoots and rewrites to be more in-line with netflix precursor.
I believe that every series should be a companion to one specific movie which it will build around - leading straight into it, following it or taking place alongside it.
Key Example: Loki and Ant Man 3
Loki’s series has major plot points, picking up the story thread from Endgame and providing context for Doomsday, and arguably for F4: First Steps. However, another story that deals with Kang is Ant-Man & Wasp - Quantumania, and this one is very open and closed as a story. Villain is defeated and they escape the strange world they’re trapped in.
Better if: Loki series becomes a film, albeit a long one, and Ant-Man 3 becomes a series. I know it would be possible - Loki’s plot would fit into 2.5 hours of cinema time, if not less, and could tell exactly the same story as it did.
Ant-Man 3 would be more interesting with a drawn out revolution against Kang, and some deeper exploration of the Quantum Realm. “Stranded in a strange world” is pure science fiction and something the MCU deserved to have explored better.
AM3 would ideally feature crossover with Loki, since both feature a Kang Variant as villain, and it gives the feeling that both stories are con-current, much like when one comic references another comic you can read alongside it.
This approach provides more structure and reduces homework, because it becomes clear to the viewer that the series is the less important bit… But definitely something to pick up if they enjoy the current story thread or that particular character.
Thus the phase-4-5 slate can become:
- Loki Movie + Ant-Man in the Quantum Realm Series
Wandavision (series) + Dr Strange MoM (film)
(pairings don’t have to be released at the same time but it’s definitely better if released near to each other)
Ms Marvel (film) + The Marvels (Series)
The Marvels was a busy movie, with 3 super-powered leads. But I found Ms Marvel’s storyline simple enough to be contained in a movie. So I would switch them. It didn’t feel like The Marvels presented much new info to the multiverse narrative.
Eternals (Film) + Brave New World (Series)
[I think Eternals contributed nothing to the larger narrative except for Adamantium. BNW feels fairly open-shut, but also a series about running around fighting red hulk or a bunch of hulks could be fun and could include Bruce Banner or Jennifer Walters]
Ironheart (Series) -> Armour Wars (Cancelled) (Film)
These two were clearly a bonded pair, and could see Rhodey team up with Riri, except Armour Wars was supposed to come out as a series. Rhodey deserves his own movie so I figure it’s not too controversial to make Armour Wars a movie.
If you try and pair up every series to a movie in this way, you’ll reveal which stories (like Secret Invasion + Thor 4) are too weak to stand alone, thus shouldn’t really exist. Moon Knight doesn’t have a matching property, and for cohesiveness they probably should’ve thought about giving it one.
Another problem is that the 8 short-length episode format prevents characters like moon knight having satisfying origin arcs, especially when shows follow the same formula of “fight minor villains for 7 episodes, then dedicated a messy, crowded eighth episode to fighting big villain”
So I think ultimately the idea of mixed media in the MCU has been a failure.
During the Infinity Saga they pulled this off successfully once. Captain America Winter Soldier came out. HYDRA fell. Agents of SHIELD the TV series has a follow up story line that discussed what happened after SHIELD fell.
However apart from that Agents of SHIELD ultimately went on to tell a wildly different story. It never really synced up with the MCU again.
During the Multiverse saga we’ve seen a lot of different things attempted and I think it’s mostly just been the prequel series that has worked.
Ms Marvel sets up Kamala Khan. WandaVision sets up Monica Rambeau. When they show up in The Marvels you can just say “they got powers” and it’s not really a problem. The film The Marvels had some problems, but Kamala and Monica are the least of them.
Falcon and the Winter Soldier shows us how Sam wrestles with being Captain America. So in Brave New World he can just be Captain America. It shows Bucky wrestling with his past. In Brave New World he can be a congressman. (A weird choice, but technically fine.) It even introduces US Agent. When he shows up in Thunderbolts and everyone makes fun of him as being the budget Captain America, it just works.
And my favorite, Loki. Season 1 specifically. It sets up the perfect villain that is Kang. When Kang shows up he can be a new villain, or he can be the character you’ve been waiting for since he was introduced. (In reality he was wasted a bit, but that’s a different problem.)
But when we start to mix them together, even the best series start to have issues. Multiverse of Madness has a Wanda who is suddenly corrupted and wants her kids back. Why is she corrupt? What kids? Well you had to watch WandaVision for it to make sense.
WandaVision, Multiverse and Agatha All Along are some of my favorite stories, but you have to watch them all and when people complain about Marvel homework this is a prime example.
So Eternals should have been a TV series, then you can have a film follow up.
She-Hulk was a TV series. Then she could have just started showing up in films.
Let the series be the “origin movie”. After the origins, put them in a movie. If you’ve got more stories, tell it as a miniseries. Once we’ve introduced all these young superheroes, make a “Young Avengers” series.
Let the series be the “origin movie”. After the origins, put them in a movie. If you’ve got more stories, tell it as a miniseries. Once we’ve introduced all these young superheroes, make a “Young Avengers” series.
Sounds good to me - plenty of good characters just “showed up” in other characters movies, so this way you have the option of avoiding homework on who the character is. [Black Widow in Iron Man 2 + Captain America 2, The Falcon in Captain America 2, Bucky, Black Panther. I think Spiderman and Dr Strange also work without seeing their origin movies]
That said, I do think they need to avoid ever again using the terrible formula for Disney+ serieses that they’ve recycled each season.
The entire point of the MCU is to make everyone “need” to watch it all.
I suppose that’s true! But I think it really shouldn’t be the case, going forward. Nobody reads every marvel comic - that would be impossible, and obviously very boring to different people. I guess Kevin Feige is like “if i had to sit through it all,” - (quality control) - “then you guys have to too.”
I don’t understand why they don’t get that. Marvel Studios hasn;t managed to make every story worthwhile and even when something does tie into the greater story (like Thor: The Dark World) it doesn’t mean it’s worth watching at all.
Accepting that some heroes are for different people would fix the MCU.
Even more than “nobody reads every Marvel comic”, writers used to create with the idea in mind that any comic could be someone‘s first comic.
I like to think of Hawkeye’s role in Thor as the perfect introduction. He’s there as a nemesis for Thor and over time you see he’s not the bad guy, just a guy doing his job. When they work together later, there’s no hard feelings.
I have watched everything since Endgame assuming we’ll get payoffs like that one. In fact, so much has been built up that I’d like to make my official wrong prediction of the year: Secret Wars and Doomsday will be in theaters as a trilogy.
I have watched everything since Endgame assuming we’ll get payoffs like that one. In fact, so much has been built up that I’d like to make my official wrong prediction of the year: Secret Wars and Doomsday will be in theaters as a trilogy.
You mean you think they’ll have a third film after Secret Wars?
Makes sense to me, I’ve seen other people predict the same thing. I think that would redeem the lack of overarching story development through phases 4 and 5. And of course Disney is wont to simply make the choices which make the most money - if every film was an avengers film you could theoretically max out viewership.
