I’ve had it up to here with Proton.
I’m an Unlimited subscriber, but even so I receive promotional ads in the Proton VPN app for Android (e.g., “Limited time offer…” or “x% off…”), which is something I find distracting and weird, since my subscription is active. These promotions don’t always appear in the app, but it was really bad around the turn of the new year. It made me feel like I was using some sketchy crapware I accidentally downloaded from the Play store vs. a legitimate VPN app.
Let me make this clear: I am not talking about emails! I know how to manage emails, but for some weird reason, it’s all anyone ever responds with. If one more person replies with information on how to manage email subscriptions, so help me…
I am specifically talking about promotions that appear to be baked into the app itself and are indismissable and perpetually visible within the app. (See my examples above, if you’re still confused by what I mean. I wish I’d taken screenshots last time it happened.)
Another issue I’ve had with Proton is that occasionally I will receive popups on their web site that entirely obstruct the screen and have no way to bypass them. Here’s an example of one advertising Proton Pass, that has no x button and nothing to click except “Start using Proton Pass now,” which is not something I want to do!
If you check my comment history, you can see multiple instances of my asking the Proton fediverse account (I think they’re on Mastodon) about these things, and every time without fail, they reply telling me how to manage email subscriptions, which (to be clear) IS NOT AT ALL WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT, IN FACT I WAS VERY EXPLICIT ABOUT THIS.
So I finally contacted them via support. Here’s what I said:
How can I disable notifications for promotions on your web site? (See: https://i.postimg.cc/FsvxM5CH/proton-Copy.png)
How can I disable notifications for promotions in the Proton VPN app for Android?
I’m not talking about emails, but about the “50% off now!!!” or “Try our new product!!!” style advertisements that I keep seeing.
I am a subscriber to Unlimited, and I do not want to see these self-promoting ads from Proton.
Let me just quote this one more time. I said:
I’m not talking about emails
So here’s the response I got:
I … I can’t fucking believe it.
I’ve sent one last message about this, but I don’t feel very hopeful at this point. If they replied with something like, “Unfortunately, we don’t allow users to dismiss promotions,” I could probably live with that … but this total dodging and ignoring simple questions is a huge red flag. Do I trust these people with my privacy when they can’t even answer a simple question?
Fortunately, all of these services have viable alternatives, so if they are unable to answer me this time, then farewell to Proton. I’m sick of this shit.
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I’ve been using proton for as long as its been around. I’m a paid user. I have email, VPN, drive and pass apps. I have never had an ad show up in any of my apps, nor any special offers. I’m on android.
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Interesting, and strange. I’m on iOS and a subscriber but I’ve never seen an ad.
I do believe around Black Friday there was a lightning bolt or some shit, when I clicked it was a Black Friday deal. Outside of that, nothing.
Yes! I think it started around Black Friday, and I think the lightning bolt might have been a thing. I wish I’d screenshotted it. It was very distracting as it was designed to catch your attention, and there was no way to dismiss it.
Someone else mentioned that it should have disappeared or be able to be dismissed and that maybe I got a bugged version of the app, because it was constantly there for me, I think up until the promotion ended. And the promotion didn’t even apply to me since I already pay for Unlimited.
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The worst part is I am a paid subscriber! That doesn’t stop them, though.
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I feel like I’d choose self hosting for a lot of things if I could. I lack the technical expertise. I’ve tried educating myself, but it’s way over my head.
@LinkOpensChest_wav @helenslunch
I’ve done the self-hosting of e-mail for over a decade. But it got so annoying and troublesome in the end it was a delight to migrate to Proton (because of all the spammers making this whole e-mail infrastructure a nightmare).
Incoming e-mail is still doable for self-hosting. But outgoing is getting incredibly hard when you’re a tiny actor; you get blocked by all these larger mail providers (gmail, hotmail/outlook.com, yahoo) and your just lucky if you’re able to get in touch with anyone willing to look into the issues. Most times you get a mail template back claiming a bad IP address/range reputation (despite being able to document it several years back). The worst one even claimed I did aggressive marketing spam (which would be absurd for the handful users I served, used it for private emailing). And then they close the support ticket and ignore you.
Proton is definitely big enough to fight back such abusive behaviours by these large actors.
Fair enough. I think it’s disgusting how these big tech companies seize control of these systems.
Also, have you tried Skiff mail? I actually like it more than Proton. It lets you create 4 (I think) aliases for free.
The main Proton services that will be hard for me to replace are the VPN and drive.
There are few alternatives to Proton Drive. Filen.io is the closest one in features. But it’s a small company, so it development takes time.
Another alternative is Tresorit. Feature wise it is far beyond Proton Drive and Filen, with more advanced sharing possibilities. But it’s quite expensive, closed source and uses Azure under the hood on the server side.
Filen and Tresorit are the only ones with Linux apps. Proton Drive can be accessed via rclone, but that is quite slow tbh.
Regarding Proton VPN. That is probably the only consumer VPN service I’m willing to give some trust. But consumer VPNs are in general questionable services. They promise a lot more than they can really deliver.
Since I trust one of the ISPs I use where I live, I host my own VPN server there and use that instead. I would even claim that you probably get a more reliable with the same type of privacy if you just use a VPS host in a trusted country and set it up as a VPN server for only your own stuff.
This one is worth a read: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/5a9909939e6ce7d09e29
VPNs do have a purpose, when used correctly and for the problem a VPN was designed to solve. Consumer VPN services generally falls out of that scope.
So I use Proton VPN only when my direct access to my own VPN server is inaccessible. And I use Proton VPN to get through restricted networks, so I can get a connection to my own VPN server (double tunnel/tunnel in tunnel).
Doesn’t setting up your own VPS take some level of technical skill? I have virtually no expertise in stuff like that, and even reading about it goes way above my head.
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Speaking of unwanted ads, my gosh, that image hosting site you used nearly gave my phone cancer.
I’ve never seen a single ad on that site using uBlock Origin and Firefox/Fennec. I wasn’t even aware that they run ads.
I see more ads than website. Hah.
You should use uBlock Origin. It’s pretty much mandatory in today’s ad-ridden hellscape.
Browsing the internet without it these days is like fucking a methed out hooker bareback. I don’t understand why anyone even considers the prospect.
When I first got a new work computer, I forgot to install it at first, and it’s gotten so bad out there. If uBO didn’t exist, I don’t think I’d really use the internet very often.
I keep hearing about it. It may finally be time. Thanks.
It’s very much worth it
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Those work great and show only the images. Thanks.
Good to know! I’ll switch to using that one instead. Thanks for letting me know!
If you keep trying the support route, I figure I’ll throw in my general tech support 2c, at the risk of it being unhelpful.
I’ve had to fight my natural temptation to “over specify” or “increase specificity” when tech support sometimes doesn’t “get” my problem. the extra words (like “this is NOT about the emails”) can seem like they’re narrowing things down, but can instead make the canned response system or the underpaid human scanning the email confused about the context. I generally now suggest “underspecifying” - go for something simpler that requires someone to engage you somehow to resolve the problem. Like, “my problem is that I unsubscribed from your emails like you told me to, but I’m still getting them, it didn’t work”. Then suddenly, this might be a bug report of something broken. That gets a lot more attention… upstream humans need to look at it to decide if it’s something affecting just you or everyone on the whole system. When they are in the process of determining this, they’ll have to notice you’re referring to the push notifications and not actual emails in order to decide it’s not a big problem waiting to happen for them.
This underspecificity has helped me a lot in getting better customer support. I never intend to lie outright or be rude… I just lower my skill level. A lot. To a low-tech user, the difference between a push notification and an email is not terribly clear. These support systems tend to work better on low-tech users because, well, most people are low-tech.
Oh so for example, I could say: “I tried this, but it didn’t work.”
Did you check email preferences?
Sorry, couldn’t resist it.
You sir are absolutely not alone about this! I mostly use Proton via the Web, and even with the Unlimited Subscription, I got ads all over Black Friday, and after about some family plan upgrades if I recall correctly. Their marketing have been off the charts, almost as bad as other VPN providers.
Although I trust Proton with my data, I really don’t like some of their choices, pluss the lack of Linux support. I can see myself checking them out at a later point again, but for now I’ve had enough. Migrating to other services that suit me better:
- Bitwarden
- Mailbox
- Mullvad / IVPN (undecided)
I feel seen! It’s weird that some people don’t seem to have gotten the ads. Maybe it was just people in certain countries? (I’m in the US)
I’ve already been using Bitwarden, and I love it so much. I honestly pay for it just to support it.
The main things are the VPN itself and Drive for cloud storage. I too have thought about IVPN or Mullvad, but neither seem quite as good as Proton. Mozilla also has a VPN service, but I never see it mentioned.
And I’m way too non-techy to think of self hosting or anything like that.
I dotn know much about Mozilla VPN, but I believe I heard its a white label of Mullvad, so I assume thir feature set to be similar.
As someone who is deep into the world of VPNs (writing my masters about this), I personally would only recommend the aforementioned ones.
For cloud storage I used to use MEGA and really enjoyed their services, but also not 100% open source i think. Otherwise you could check out Filen.io, or Ente.io(for pictures only).
I guess I’m alright with using Mega. I’d prefer open source of course, but I mostly just don’t want to use something from Google, Apple, or Microsoft.
Jup, same boat here
@LunchEnjoyer @LinkOpensChest_wav I am also so frustrated with their lack of Linux support! I just set up wireguard on my machine instead of using their Linux ui. Even their cli freezes and fails to log me in. Then the support chat just says “sorry, we don’t officially support your flavor of Linux”
@Prototype9215 @LunchEnjoyer @LinkOpensChest_wav
That’s what really happens when @protonmail insists on doing everything on their own, not even doing the continuous development in the open. They provide source code updates only on stable releases, and even that can be delayed some days until after the release.
That’s not how you build a community of users, developers and package maintainers.
Had they instead spent resources getting their Linux packages into the native package streams for the most important distros, they would have solved more bugs earlier with help from the community.
That is probably the most disappointing aspect of Proton. They still don’t grasp how to interact with a broader community, to get real help.
They would still need to review contributions, just as I expect they do with changes from their own employees. So it wouldn’t reduce the security.
Also, they can’t really hide behind the code not being ready to be published; they code is being published in the end.
But they really miss the opportunity to get their packages into the standard Lunux repositories. Which would help resolving all the incompatibility issues they now have with certain Linux distributions.
On top of that, all the needed tooling required already exists. It just need to implemented correctly in their processes.
Had they instead spent resources getting their Linux packages into the native package streams for the most important distros, they would have solved more bugs earlier with help from the community.
Or, you know, even just had official Flatpaks or something. I don’t particularly like them but it’s still way better than releasing only lonely RPMs without even a repo.
They could even have a Fedora Copr repo, where they push out the updated .spec file and get a proper package build for all Fedora, RHEL/CentOS and more distros. With proper RPM packaging and repository. Push a new build and all users gets an updated package at their next update cycle.
That’s a reasonable path to get started with preparing packages to become part of the native yum/dnf repos at least. And that across a lot of distributions and releases in a single go.
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I don’t mind the emails that they send. For me it was this flashy purple button stuck on the UI trying to get me to buy family plan or just telling me aboyt the BF sale. I don’t get why I should upgrade to something more when im already paying full price. Also read about multiple other people complain about this on Reddit.
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I’m currently on Proton unlimited because I use all the Proton services but I had a wonderful experience with Mullvad VPN. Can’t recommend it enough.
I’m also unlimited, for years now. I’ve never seen an ad in the app.
Do you have a screenshot so we can see the ads or where they show up and start troubleshooting?
This was the thing they were advertising. It appeared to be something actually baked into the app that was promoting this deal. It ended on January 3. Maybe I can try downgrading to the version of the app from that time period? I’m pretty sure it was hard-coded into the app itself during that time. I frequently open that app throughout the day, and it was there every time.
Yeah if it’s definitely just the same one over and over, then you might have just got unlucky and some bug has it stuck in the app there.
You could try to grab a new version after clearing the data/cache before uninstalling, downgrade and update.
If it’s just that one ad, it just sounds like you got a bum version of the app somehow, or some software glitch transformed the app somehow.
Then tell me that? If that’s the case, then why would Proton be so dodgy about answering my questions? I clearly and repeatedly described the issue I was talking about, and they continuously sent me information on subscribing to emails.
If it is an issue, then I would want to submit it on github. If it’s a non-existent feature, then I’d want to request that. But I can’t proceed with any certainty when they don’t answer simple, direct questions.
So my issue at this point is not even so much the ad as it is the bigger problem of the dodgy communication from Proton.
If you’re asking why customer service sucks, yeah, I think you’ll just find everyone shrugging since customer service sucks and they don’t listen.
If you’re fed up with protons or whatever reason, I can recommend astrill, I used that VPN for years also without any issues.
I am fed up with Proton! And I’m also overwhelmed with comparing alternatives, so I truly appreciate the recommendation.
You don’t happen to know any alternatives to Proton Drive that don’t require a self-hosted server? (I’m not very techie.) I was looking at CryptDrive, but its 100MB limit might be difficult.
I don’t really use cloud storage at all. The most I ever used was mega, and I know that’s encrypted.
And that used to have gigabytes of free storage, let me check it out real quick.
Yeah, mega still does 20 gigabytes of free cloud storage, and it’s all encrypted. Just don’t lose your password or you’re f*****, haha.
And yeah, I had no issues with astral for 7 years or so, although I haven’t used it the past several years when I switched to proton.
No particular reason I can recall, I think I had just been using astrill so long， I figured I’d see what else is out there, maybe proton had a sale or something I don’t know.
Great, thanks!
No. I’m kicking myself for not getting a screenshot when it happened. I’ll double-check on my phone in case I accidentally took a screenshot, but I’m pretty sure I don’t have one.
Is it only there right after you open the app or does it show up randomly?
Is it always the same ad or does it seem like it’s being updated as time goes on?
The characteristics of the ad might help us narrow something down.
Are they full page ads?
And are you on Android or Apple?
Try and get a screenshot if you see another one. And this is definitely the official app that you downloaded from their site, right? Or from the Play store or whatever?
Are they full page ads?
No. It was a box that appeared about 3/4 up the screen with information about the promotion. If I clicked it, then it took me to a page with information about subscribing to the promotional deal, which was super confusing since, as I said, I already pay for Unlimited.
And are you on Android or Apple?
Android.
And this is definitely the official app that you downloaded from their site, right? Or from the Play store or whatever?
It’s the official F-Droid release. The version I currently have is 4.9.40.5.
I had upgrade ads while using Unlimited as well, went back to free version
Thank God it wasn’t just me! I wish I had taken a screenshot.
I’ve been actively using the Proton VPN app both on my android phone and on multiple Linux distros for a year+ now and I haven’t ever gotten an ad in-app.
My android Proton VPN app I got from fdroid though, not from the Google Playstore, so maybe that makes a difference?
I too have the F-Droid version. There’s another comment in this thread describing this in detail, including even a link and the version I’m currently running.
The ad I saw was a promotion for some end of year sale that didn’t even apply to me since I’m already an Unlimited subscriber.
The other ads I’ve seen have been pop-ups on the Proton web site that can’t be xed out of.
Weird, must be certain users then. I wonder if it’s a bug in their registration database.
If it is, then I’d submit an issue on github next time it happens, but first I need them to give me a real response!
This was a common reported issue on their subreddit s between November to January. So, you can probably find many pictures of if there. Also, yes Proton is just another crappy company. I’ll move to something with less restrictions once my subscription ends.
Do you have anything in mind that is better? I am considering moving. Maybe Tuta, though I don’t know how much better they are.
Tuta shares most of the same issues. Aggressive marketing and many restrictions on how you manage your subscription and emails. I’m considering mailbox but I haven’t searched enough yet.
I searched and found this: https://old.reddit.com/r/ProtonVPN/comments/17sh434/how_do_i_stop_the_ads/
I didn’t see anything else about it, and as you can see there is no useful information or discussion in that thread. The rest of the threads mentioning the Black Friday deal all seem populated by totally-not-bots who are thrilled to see the deal.
I’m so glad I left that site.
@nailoC5 @LinkOpensChest_wav I can only say good things about @mailbox_org great, very professional email service. I just switched to @protonprivacy because of the family plan: VPN, password manager and secure email for my whole family of 6. plus: 3 TB of storage.
Proton subscriber for, maybe 5 years(?) here. I don’t recall ever seeing an ad specifically in the app. That said, I must have seen an ad either in the app or by email, because that’s how I was introduced to proton Pass, which I now use and I’m glad I was introduced.
Were you logged in at the time?
First thing to do with any new program is go to settings and set all notifications and privacy and opt-out stuff the way you want.Seems like the support email is a canned response. Obviously still frustrating, but did you try clarifying with them in a response email?
Yes. I said in my post that I sent them one last email, and their response will determine whether I find it worthwhile to continue with their services.
I also got similarly irrelevant responses from their Mastodon account though, which is supposedly a real person.
did you actually turn off all the ‘subscriptions’? the first shot you included has a still few enabled, including one that could be the magic thing to turn off (product announcements) what you’re so worked-up over.
https://i.ibb.co/nQtzZ1r/Screenshot-20240203-131041-Fennec.jpg
I’m sorry I went off. I’m sure you were trying to be helpful, and I took it personally when you said I was worked up, which I shouldn’t have done.
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it is very possible that through poor design choice on their part, the two are connected. i have seen similar elsewhere numerous times.
so maybe you should step back a bit, count to ‘10’, take a deep breath. and do it. it won’t hurt you to flip a few blips over. and holy fuck, dude. chill, just a little.
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They sometimes have trouble reading what I’m actually saying sometimes too.
Just respond telling them that they didn’t read what you typed and explain again that you’re talking about the VPN app on android.
By the way, Android user and proton unlimited subscriber here, I’ve never seen any ads inside the proton VPN app on android. Not from proton, not from anything.
Do you live in the EU, out of curiosity? A lot of Unlimited users have said they saw the promotion, not just me, and so I’m curious why not everyone did. It was very noticeable to me since I open the app frequently
I don’t live in the EU. The only promos I’ve ever gotten for any proton products were through proton mail and the pages on lemmy and reddit. Never in the VPN app
Thanks for responding! It does make me wonder why I and others did. It was presumably the same version of the app. I was using the official app from F-Droid.
I got proton’s app by going to proton’s website and letting the link there take me to the google play store page for it.
I got it from the official F-Droid link
